Bryan Dewsbury: 00:11

Welcome back everyone. Episode five of Knowledge and Bound. We are graciously brought to you by the RIOS Institute for Racially Just Inclusive Open STEM Education, generously funded by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. Thank you for joining us on this incredible journey. As always, I am here to greet my favorite producer because he's my only producer, mister Segev Amasay.

Bryan Dewsbury: 00:35

There can only be one. Segev, you you seem kinda tired today. Are you okay? No. I'm doing fine.

Bryan Dewsbury: 00:43

You know, around that time of the semester. Mhmm. Finals week is coming up and all, but I'm still very excited to hear about the the guests that you bring on to the show. And, you know, I was looking through this episode, and it turns out that there's not just one thing that's being unbound, but two. Tell me about We we have knowledge unbound, but then we also have college unbound.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:08

You know, I found out to be a bit of a surprise. So So Sigham is making a clear on words that today's guest is the president of College Unbound, a very just unique and wonderful institution in Providence, Rhode Island. And they're they're nationwide, but physically Rhode Island. And President Adam Bush and I spent some time just talking about his journey to that and sort of big life questions that College Bound is trying to unanswer to, not unanswer, to answer. And as always, this this journey, this conversations took us down different paths, different things and really hope that you learn from it in the, I guess in the same way that Sigev was inspired by it.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:50

So welcome to episode five. I hope you enjoy.

Adam Bush: 01:57

Thanks so much for having me. And first, I really wanna start by saying how thrilled I am to be here with you and just sitting together in the offices of FIU and having a chance to be in in brainstorm space together. Like, there's so much that I think is swirling around these issues, and you and I both think about what it means to institutionalize things.

Bryan Dewsbury: 02:21

Right.

Adam Bush: 02:21

What it means to challenge institutionalization Mhmm. That sitting here with you as a thought partner and friend means a lot. It's an important space I Thank you. Thank you for your work. Alright.

Adam Bush: 02:35

So your question was it was like a why do I do the work I do?

Bryan Dewsbury: 02:40

Well well, let's let's let's get before we get to the why, I wanna hear your journey to college unbound, and and feel free to start wherever you need to, including if it's I was five years old when because that journey might say a lot more about your why. So that by the time you actually get to directly addressing your why, it will be very apparent from your journey.

Adam Bush: 03:04

I'll give you a few disjointed incidents that will

Bryan Dewsbury: 03:08

Got it.

Adam Bush: 03:08

Lead up to maybe some of that why. Your five year old thing, I'll I'll go to six. I was six when my younger sister was born Mhmm. And my grandfather, my mom's dad, had a stroke while I was sleeping over at their house. And

Bryan Dewsbury: 03:28

the Did you physically witness it?

Adam Bush: 03:30

I was I I awoke with the ambulance showing up. Okay. And so it was one of it's like a moment in my life I remember very clearly. Mhmm. The I also remember very clearly going to the hospital to visit with my sister in Stroller for weeks after that.

Adam Bush: 03:45

I remember very clearly for years after that doing speech therapy with my grandfather Mhmm. As he taught himself to walk and talk again Mhmm. At the same time as my younger sister learning to walk and talk. Mhmm. And I think for me, that was that's what I identify as like a grounding pedagogical moment or a thing that helped me think about how how, where teaching and learning happens, the importance of it always being multi generational Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 04:20

And filled deeply with love.

Bryan Dewsbury: 04:22

Right. Right.

Adam Bush: 04:23

I was, I don't know, I was a goofy kid always interested in trying things differently. So I remember talking my Spanish teacher into letting me, instead of sitting in class selling churros in the public park during baseball and softball games for the school. I remember as an undergrad being interested in being on, like, curriculum committees and the policies that led to change. Mhmm. And I also, as an undergrad, was like this.

Adam Bush: 05:02

I was a young student at the start of the Center for Jazz Studies at Columbia University. And so I was the kid who was setting up chairs while events were happening and found the people I wanted to learn from and spend time with about the scholarship they were doing, but also what it meant to build an entity to study this thing differently. It wasn't a musicology department. It was how to lift up, understand, honor jazz musicians as knowledge makers, as collaborators, as folks with a vision of how the world could and should be. Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 05:40

And how jazz lens to look at American studies, American culture could present a path to be in that world differently. Mhmm. And so the work I started to do as a jazz historian in the next years Mhmm. Was really because I I wanted to be peers in that space. I wanted to present scholarship in that space.

Bryan Dewsbury: 06:03

Right. Right.

Adam Bush: 06:04

So I started a multi year project. I just it was actually my grandfather's old Cadillac. I got in in Los Angeles, and I hit the road for a few years interviewing musicians on the origins of black music in their high schools Mhmm. And what it meant to learn improvisation Mhmm. As a young kid and the and the teachers that carved out the space for that instruction.

Bryan Dewsbury: 06:29

Did did did all of them learn that improvisation in a school necessarily?

Adam Bush: 06:37

No. Very much not.

Bryan Dewsbury: 06:38

Okay.

Adam Bush: 06:38

But it was teachers insisting that schools change to make sure that there was black music taught in those spaces.

Bryan Dewsbury: 06:48

Okay.

Adam Bush: 06:49

That was an important pivot moment

Bryan Dewsbury: 06:51

Okay.

Adam Bush: 06:51

In segregated black public high schools around the Okay. In Birmingham in 1917, though, I mean, students went on strike insisting that their music program have instruments. So they were fighting for a different type of music to be present. Teachers at the time were were deeply creative and smart, making sure that that was felt in the schools. Right.

Adam Bush: 07:13

That what was happening in the classrooms was reflecting the work and the music making that was happening anywhere on on stoops and on sidewalks and in rec rooms and on bandstands.

Bryan Dewsbury: 07:23

So so given the time period, given the time point you're talking about, do you know if there was a a similar curriculum in white schools or if any of this was being touched at all?

Adam Bush: 07:34

No. Very much not. Okay.

Bryan Dewsbury: 07:36

So there's some This was black culture relevant pedagogy before it became a term.

Adam Bush: 07:40

Exactly. Black music and black schools Yeah. Because black students and teachers insisted on it. Right. Right.

Adam Bush: 07:46

And so, you know, I think I started doing that work as an academic exercise. It very quickly became a political project. And the thing that I couldn't just write about it as a notion without also doing that work in real time. Mhmm. And so the work I began to do in graduate school, and that sustained me through graduate school, was about culturally relevant high school education, was writing about culturally relevant high school education.

Adam Bush: 08:16

Mhmm. It was about political organizing, seeing and studying students organized in their schools, how to create institutional

Bryan Dewsbury: 08:24

Tell me a little bit more about that because I feel like that that right there is the is the the tethering that maybe a lot of people who are supportive of activism, who are supportive of the kind of politics that would give us equity, that would give us the the the tools and the environment we need in schools. But but you know, you just used the phrase, you quickly realized it it was also a political project. Right? You know, walk us through a little bit what you mean by that. How did that realization come to be?

Bryan Dewsbury: 08:55

And what did you do with it?

Adam Bush: 09:00

So I remember like, I was interviewing not just, like, present day musicians Mhmm. Who learned music in those classrooms. I was interviewing the first black postman of Oklahoma City

Bryan Dewsbury: 09:13

Okay.

Adam Bush: 09:13

And the first black mayor of Birmingham

Bryan Dewsbury: 09:15

Okay.

Adam Bush: 09:15

And folks who were political actors, whether or not they were organized identified as organizers of politicians Right.

Bryan Dewsbury: 09:24

Right.

Adam Bush: 09:24

That saw

Bryan Dewsbury: 09:26

And so we have to sort of broaden what we think of when we think of politics. We think

Adam Bush: 09:29

of politics, but also the importance of improvisation. Mhmm. I think it it forced me to see it that you weren't just learning improvisation to be a musician. You were learning improvisation as a way of being in the world. Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 09:41

And that that is political work. Mhmm. And I began to see and understand improvisation not just as a research subject Mhmm. But the more and more I got involved in higher education, it became the way I taught and designed classes Mhmm. In deep co creation and collaboration with students.

Bryan Dewsbury: 10:03

Okay.

Adam Bush: 10:04

And then as I got more and more involved in higher ed, it became the institutional ethic I was after. Okay. It wasn't just the way I wanted to teach. It was the way I wanted our institutions to exist and be able to change.

Bryan Dewsbury: 10:18

So given this central role that this construct of improvisation Mhmm. This theme of improvisation has played in so much so many aspects of your journey. I feel you owe it to the audience to explain in your words, right, what you mean when you, you know, I know I know you're really asking for a definition per se, but just the meaning. How what should somebody think of when you are using this term in the context you are using this term?

Adam Bush: 10:47

I would say improvisation has an ethic of active listening Mhmm. And of co creation and responsiveness. And you can see that play out on a bandstand with musicians.

Bryan Dewsbury: 11:02

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 11:03

You can see that play out in rehearsal and practice. Mhmm. You can see that play out on a on a sports pitch Mhmm. Or in in how we're talking together. Right.

Adam Bush: 11:14

There's lots of ways that the tools and ethics of improvisation appear in parts of life that aren't just music co creation. Mhmm. And so I became really interested in how to think about that in different ways that I wanted to work in the world.

Bryan Dewsbury: 11:35

Okay. Do you so is is some of that active listening and and here's the context for this question. I was trained as a classical pianist for ten years. I'm terrible now because I stopped when I was 16 or something.

Adam Bush: 11:54

Have you insisted your kids play piano growing up?

Bryan Dewsbury: 11:57

Insisted is a strong word. I'm not trying to have DCF come to my house. But I I I do encourage. I I do encourage them. I do encourage them.

Bryan Dewsbury: 12:06

They they like it, but you know, it's it's, you know, how much hours in the day and how much activities you do. But they actually do like it and I do think hope I guess maybe more hopeful that they will get into it in a more serious way soon. But I I was trained like in the, you know, Mozart Beethoven kind of world and and, you know, I grew up in Trinidad. We played steel pan music, but we played mostly you know, gospel, pop, classical. And we started to do a little bit of jazz.

Bryan Dewsbury: 12:37

And I quickly realized I wasn't very good at that. Right? And I remember the band leader so this is Jazz on Pan. I remember the band leader had said, Brian, you need to listen to your brain. You need to listen to the stories being told in your head.

Bryan Dewsbury: 12:51

And I couldn't you know, I I was nine. Right? So so that's the other context. But as I'm hearing you talking about active listening, I'm wondering if some of the listening is is, you know, changes morphing, you know, all of the things that are happening in you that's responding to the environment around you that you also need to be in commune with Yeah. In addition to your colleagues.

Adam Bush: 13:17

Yeah. I'm just picturing nine year olds right now.

Bryan Dewsbury: 13:23

Please do.

Adam Bush: 13:23

But, you know, this the work I was doing like, I was spending a lot of time with with jazz musicians. I still do whenever I can. The methodology I was doing was oral history.

Bryan Dewsbury: 13:36

Okay.

Adam Bush: 13:37

And that also is grounded in principles of active listening. Mhmm. It's it wasn't interviews that I was conducting. It was oral history sessions of spending time with someone in their life and the shared authority of that interview not being something I was taking the recording of and driving away, but how we could look at that transcript together, edit it together, go back in and have another conversation. Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 14:09

Go through the attic together and talk through artifacts and find ways that stories became alive in the present moment in out of a a collaborative sharing.

Bryan Dewsbury: 14:22

Okay.

Adam Bush: 14:23

Okay. And so I I see that with music making. I see that with storytelling. Right. I think part of your question is how does it also affect you, me?

Adam Bush: 14:31

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it became sort of like grounding principles of how I wanted to live my life and do do work.

Adam Bush: 14:39

Yeah. For sure.

Bryan Dewsbury: 14:40

Yeah. I mean, I I don't wanna digress this too much, but I'm thinking of, you know, just for context for the audience, you know, president Bush and I actually, time out. I just called you president Bush. Tell me you've been using that. No.

Bryan Dewsbury: 14:56

No.

Adam Bush: 14:56

I I do not ask folks to call me president or president Bush. I, in fact, might phone a little bit. My phone message. When I first got my my first cell phone twenty five years ago, I made sure that I would like say my name and at the end I would say no relation. I wanted to like establish I was not I was not that president Bush.

Adam Bush: 15:19

I was not trying to

Bryan Dewsbury: 15:21

That's that's pretty funny. I wanted to tell people that Adam and I are at the AAC and U, so American Association of Colleges and Universities annual conference. And kinda snuck away to do this recording. And I was just at a session by a good friend and colleague, Doctor. Corbin Campbell from American University.

Bryan Dewsbury: 15:40

And she was talking about how some professors do active learning. And she says particularly in did she say particularly science classes? I can't remember what. But she said there are some professors who to use her with a one trick pony. Right?

Bryan Dewsbury: 15:58

So they learn three things. Yeah. And they do those same three things every class. So if you saw one class, basically saw it all. Right?

Bryan Dewsbury: 16:05

And what it it was a really good way to put it because one of my not so much critiques of active learning, but maybe the way in which I operationalize it for how I teach is the activity. Whatever we do, whether it's we kicking it, having a conversation, if I lecture, if we're doing a problem set, if we're going back and forth on a problem. It's informed by the conditions on the ground. Yeah. It's a constant conversation, right?

Bryan Dewsbury: 16:29

It's never I just have these five things and I have to get through it. It's Yeah. I have to see everything. Right? Like I'm looking at your eyes, your shoulders, your body language.

Bryan Dewsbury: 16:39

So I guess hearing you give it this jazz framing is very, you know, interesting, maybe lovely. Right? Because it has a love of music. So so I get the ethos of this. Right?

Bryan Dewsbury: 16:53

How does practically speaking, how does then this then turn into the journey that you ended up on?

Adam Bush: 16:58

Yeah. How about I'll I'm gonna jump ahead just to be in conversation with you and Mhmm. And the teaching that you talked about.

Bryan Dewsbury: 17:07

Uh-huh.

Adam Bush: 17:07

And then I'll go back to a little bit more of the founding of the because I I just finished we're speaking in January, and I I just finished a semester of teaching the class on Mhmm. Reparations in higher education. Mhmm. And one, I just I love teaching. I wanna make sure as I do more and more administrative work, I'm also grounding it in being in deep relationship with students the classroom.

Adam Bush: 17:29

Both as a reparative gesture for that class on reparations Mhmm. And relationship with how lots of classes at College Unbound are taught. I didn't know what I was teaching until I knew who was in the room.

Bryan Dewsbury: 17:45

Right.

Adam Bush: 17:47

We designed a syllabus together, and if I'm truly honoring my students as colleagues and as folks who are bringing knowledge into that space and experience in that space, we needed to learn about one another so that we could share where we wanted and needed the class to go. At College of Bound, there's a template where that happens in every class. I just thought it's sixteen week class, but normally they're eight weeks, and in the first two weeks, every faculty member has a one on one meeting with every student Mhmm. To then design and tailor the next six weeks of the class. Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 18:28

Because every student is bringing projects and questions and issues that they are infusing that course with. The course is there as a lens to help someone the project that they're trying to do in the world. Mhmm. And so that that class cannot be pre designed. Right.

Adam Bush: 18:49

It has to evolve.

Bryan Dewsbury: 18:50

Right.

Adam Bush: 18:50

Because of who's there and because we are different in relationship with one another.

Bryan Dewsbury: 18:55

Right. Right.

Adam Bush: 18:56

So the the whole school has to reflect that.

Bryan Dewsbury: 18:58

I'm gonna later on, I'm gonna ask you some questions about Sure. You know, development, faculty, like how, you know, I know you, right? You're the president, but, yeah, I mean, you know the world we traffic in outside of College Unbound and what culture of higher ed faculty tends to be and and the some of the I like to say the higher ed isms Mhmm. That we've come to accept as in it Yeah. Which you're currently disrupting.

Bryan Dewsbury: 19:28

So it's I'm interested to hear about the personalities who have embraced that model. So anyway you want

Adam Bush: 19:35

to I really and I'm excited out of this for you and I also to think about how to design deeper professional development structures within College of Mound Right. And ways that College of Mount is not an isolated boutique institution. Right. Right. But one that has deep influence and impact across the landscape.

Adam Bush: 19:53

Right. And has pathways for folks who maybe wouldn't see themselves as higher education professionals to know that there's a space for them to step in to a community of teaching and learning. Right. Okay. So, you know, if I'm going back to like, early days of College of Mound, it was that as I got more and more involved in thinking about improvisation as a way of teaching, I was first at UC Santa Cruz and then at University of Southern California, and also working closely with a national consortium called Imagine America

Bryan Dewsbury: 20:32

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 20:32

Artists and Scholars in Public Life Mhmm. And really thinking about practices of institutionalization and what type of institution I wanted to step into, could step into Mhmm. And the limitations of the teaching I was doing in the in the schools I was connected to. Right. Through deep coincidence and friendship, Dennis Litke and I started teaching, working, going to brunch together, thinking about the work he had been doing for a lot of years at the Met High School and nationally at Big Picture Learning.

Adam Bush: 21:07

Mhmm. That was one of the models that, you know, I said I started to look at present day actors for culturally relevant curriculum.

Bryan Dewsbury: 21:15

Right.

Adam Bush: 21:15

Right. And institutions that reflected that. And certainly, Picture Learning had been doing that for

Bryan Dewsbury: 21:20

Yeah.

Adam Bush: 21:20

For years before I started. And so spending more and more time with that model, we started thinking about what did it mean to look at that through a lens of higher education. Mhmm. And so fifteen, twenty something years ago, I moved out to Rhode Island to to start College Unbound.

Bryan Dewsbury: 21:41

Okay.

Adam Bush: 21:42

We weren't a college when we started. Right. We were an idea Mhmm. That start to started to build a consortium of colleges and universities who would embed within themselves higher education pathways, college amount pathways for folks that their institutions weren't already supporting.

Bryan Dewsbury: 21:58

Okay.

Adam Bush: 21:59

And that we would ensure that they're, through changing curriculum, through student services, through building different kind of living and learning centers, have students navigate those institutions. It was sort of like, when I look back on it, a funky version of the posse program.

Bryan Dewsbury: 22:15

Okay.

Adam Bush: 22:15

Because we were in trying to be in different control or impartial on curricular stuff Mhmm. On recruitment stuff, all the all the likes.

Bryan Dewsbury: 22:22

Did you send them to fancy New England colleges? We

Adam Bush: 22:27

never got the consortium figured out, but we ended up learning different things at each of the institutions we were working with. Mhmm. Mhmm. And before I jump into the consortium, the first the first month of the first group of College of Mound students was it was a dozen students. We flew them all to Los Angeles.

Adam Bush: 22:46

They stayed overnight in my parents' living room, And then we all got in a school bus that I drove. I had a bus driver's license at the time. And we spent a month driving back east across the country, stopping in every student's hometown.

Bryan Dewsbury: 23:02

Okay.

Adam Bush: 23:03

In Los Angeles, Sacramento, Seattle Mhmm. Detroit, Camden, Hartford, Providence. And in each of those cities, each student was tasked in giving a tour of their hometown through themes that they cared about. We spent ten days at the home of Gracely Boggs, amazing organizer Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Bush: 23:23

Activist Yeah. In Detroit, staying in carriage house thinking about, if we all care about these things, we're all about to move to Providence.

Bryan Dewsbury: 23:30

Right.

Adam Bush: 23:30

Where do we see models for multi generational, multi ethnic organizing for a better world? Mhmm. Sought to move to Providence into a living and learning community that we were trying to build together. Okay. To do that work in Providence.

Adam Bush: 23:44

And that was for our first group of students that were enrolled at Roger Williams University.

Bryan Dewsbury: 23:49

Right.

Adam Bush: 23:49

And I had a cohort a few cohorts.

Bryan Dewsbury: 23:51

So so at that time, like, a full on college was not on your mind?

Adam Bush: 23:55

We were just a thing that felt like we could change colleges

Bryan Dewsbury: 23:58

Okay.

Adam Bush: 23:59

From within, through partner, through being an agitator. Right. It's really hard to be a partner with institutions when you're not actually a partner. Yeah. Turns out.

Adam Bush: 24:12

Yeah. Turns out, by the way. I mean, you know, you think about the thing, like, if you don't have a seat at the table, you're what's for dinner.

Bryan Dewsbury: 24:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Bush: 24:18

There's a little bit of, like, we we weren't anyone's budget priority.

Bryan Dewsbury: 24:23

Right.

Adam Bush: 24:23

So we were on, like, at that first university, we were on, like, our third president and fourth dean or whatever Yeah. Yeah. As many

Bryan Dewsbury: 24:30

as And I've heard somebody give that same phrase about seat at the table, you're on what's for dinner. But I told that person, you could have a seat at the table and be on a menu. Don't don't don't assume those things are mutually exclusive.

Adam Bush: 24:44

Yeah.

Bryan Dewsbury: 24:45

In fact, one could be done as a facade to, you know, fool you into thinking you're not on the menu. But, yeah, I digress.

Adam Bush: 24:52

No. I mean, we were invited to the table Yeah. Yeah. Without the I mean, there was, like, things that, like, there was a language of partnership Right.

Bryan Dewsbury: 24:58

Right.

Adam Bush: 24:58

Without actual shared ownership.

Bryan Dewsbury: 25:01

Right.

Adam Bush: 25:02

And in part, that was meant to protect institutions.

Bryan Dewsbury: 25:05

Right.

Adam Bush: 25:05

I get that a little bit now on the other side.

Bryan Dewsbury: 25:07

Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Bush: 25:08

And I feel like there's other ways of doing things.

Bryan Dewsbury: 25:10

Right.

Adam Bush: 25:10

And over the first five years of our existence, as we had these clunky partnerships, at the same time, adult learners started to seek us out.

Bryan Dewsbury: 25:23

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 25:23

Saying what you're doing as a personalized, culturally relevant curriculum Mhmm. Connected to each student's life is what I want and need and what I'm not able to get at the institutions around me.

Bryan Dewsbury: 25:36

So when you say sought seek you out, like, from from where did they come? So, like, did they did they see you, like, on a flyer? Did some people tell a friend? Yeah. Were they enrolled at particular institutions that you were at?

Bryan Dewsbury: 25:49

Like, where where did that pool appear from?

Adam Bush: 25:51

Two examples. Uh-huh. I'll give three examples. One is it was just two employees at the Met High School on Rhode Island

Bryan Dewsbury: 26:01

Okay.

Adam Bush: 26:01

Saw the work we were doing Mhmm. With students that were living just across the street from the Met High School. Okay. Said, oh, that's I kinda want that, and I don't know where else to get that.

Bryan Dewsbury: 26:10

In Smith Hill?

Adam Bush: 26:11

That that we were on in South Providence. Okay. Mhmm. Another is I was in New Orleans and went to a community sing led by Carol B. Beldo, founder of the Ashrae Cultural Arts Center.

Adam Bush: 26:26

Okay. The largest organization working in the work of African diaspora led by folks of the African diaspora. Mhmm. Sharing about College Unbound, Carol called me two days later after a dream saying, I want that to work at Oshea, to support Oshea. Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 26:52

And so very quickly, employees, allies, affiliates and partners of Oshea formed a 10 person cohort

Bryan Dewsbury: 26:59

that they running in their Right. Right. Okay.

Adam Bush: 27:02

And then back in Rhode Island, it was like, I don't know how much we knew what we were doing, but we put out a Facebook flyer that said, have you started college and not finished? Come on Tuesday, there's gonna be pizza. Let's figure it out. And 75 people showed up. And so there's this, like, built up pent up energy for higher ed to be different.

Bryan Dewsbury: 27:21

Did did it blow you away to see that number?

Adam Bush: 27:23

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. We thought two people were gonna show up. Right. And

Bryan Dewsbury: 27:29

And at this point, who's the we? Is it you and Dennis?

Adam Bush: 27:31

Yeah. And yeah. And a larger collective of friends, allies, other faculty, those students at the time.

Bryan Dewsbury: 27:39

Right.

Adam Bush: 27:40

Yeah. And we're still trying to design what we are at that point.

Bryan Dewsbury: 27:42

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 27:43

But as we got clear that adult learners needed this Mhmm. We got clear what it meant to provide a curricular model that was recognizing the learning that they were doing in daily life. It like, it couldn't be you're now you have to come to campus five days a week. It couldn't be, like, it had to recognize that they have full time jobs and kids and everything. We knew we had to create a different kind of institution Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 28:07

Because the institutions we were partnering with weren't pivoting in those ways.

Bryan Dewsbury: 28:10

Right.

Adam Bush: 28:10

Right. And so it set us on a path in 2015 to be recognized as the thirteenth post secondary institution in Rhode Island.

Bryan Dewsbury: 28:16

Okay.

Adam Bush: 28:17

And that put us on a path to be accredited in the newest accredited college in New England in 2020, and that put us on a path to get approved through the state authorization reciprocity agreement to support students online nationwide. Mhmm. And so that's what we're doing now, embedded into public libraries, and health clinics, and conference rooms, and people's homes and kitchen tables Mhmm. And school districts. Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 28:46

That there's eight to ten ten to 12 people who gather in each of these spaces weekly sharing stories and work that they're doing in the world in this, what we call the world and workplace lab. Yeah. And then we build curriculum on top of that that help advance someone towards a bachelor's degree that's authentic to who they are.

Bryan Dewsbury: 29:04

So if you had to describe quickly in a couple sentences, because I feel we've talked about college and bond, would you know, I'm trying to think of somebody who's listening asking, well, actually, what what know it's a college

Adam Bush: 29:15

Yeah.

Bryan Dewsbury: 29:16

And I get it has a different model. How would you, president, describe this as somebody who just walked up to you in his room and say, hey, I heard about your school. Can you tell me what it's about?

Adam Bush: 29:25

Sure. I have a little bit more than like an elevator ride. Go. Right? Like I so I would say we're an accredited bachelor of arts program with one bachelor's degree

Bryan Dewsbury: 29:37

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 29:38

In organizational leadership and change.

Bryan Dewsbury: 29:40

Okay.

Adam Bush: 29:41

A student pursuing that degree earns credit at College Unbound in three ways concurrently.

Bryan Dewsbury: 29:47

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 29:48

In one, they're part of a weekly synchronous seminar every semester called the World and Workplace Lab. It's high school homeroom meets higher ed academic advising Mhmm. Meets your dissertation committee meets Mhmm. Town hall meeting, meets your kitchen table. Right.

Adam Bush: 30:04

It's just like funky, sweet, caring space that feeds you, nurtures you, and asks of you Mhmm. To be a participant in sharing the work and learning you did that day and that week. And that's a three credit seminar every semester that you're enrolled in College Unbound.

Bryan Dewsbury: 30:20

Okay.

Adam Bush: 30:21

Layered on top of that are eight week

Bryan Dewsbury: 30:24

And just time out, you said you meet once a week. Uh-huh. So do they meet for three hours? Mhmm. Okay.

Bryan Dewsbury: 30:29

Uh-huh.

Adam Bush: 30:30

It's a three hour seminar that, by default, is happening either Tuesday or Wednesday evening. Mhmm. By default, has childcare and a hot dinner incorporated into it. Mhmm. There are other cohorts that because of the student body or where they're meeting or they may do during the day or maybe in other places.

Adam Bush: 30:48

Mhmm. But that's sort of like the default template of it.

Bryan Dewsbury: 30:51

Yeah.

Adam Bush: 30:53

And that group stays together throughout their while they're pursuing a bachelor's degree. Different than, let's say, high school where you have a high school homeroom Mhmm. Where everyone's in ninth grade. Right. Next year, everyone goes to tenth grade.

Adam Bush: 31:06

Next year, everyone Mhmm. At College of Mounds, some folks enter in with zero credits, some with 30, some with 90 credits. Okay. So sometimes Depending on

Bryan Dewsbury: 31:14

what they bring.

Adam Bush: 31:15

What depending on what they bring from other institutions Mhmm. As well as even if you come with zero credits, we're gonna frame our college as a degree completion college. Mhmm. Because we're very quickly jumping into who are you? Tell us about things you've learned in life and experiences you've had, and let's help you document that so we can tease out learning outcomes.

Adam Bush: 31:36

Mhmm. So you can document that as credit bearing work. Right. And so even someone coming in with no past college certainly has deep learning experiences that could be accredited and honored and lifted up and put on someone's transcript.

Bryan Dewsbury: 31:52

Well, I mean, the thing I love about it is that without being explicit, a lot of times what we communicate in the current higher ed structure is that unless it's in the formal classroom with me with my PhD in front of you, it's not of value. Right? That's right. And that's the underlying message. Like no one's saying it out loud, but they're saying it out Right?

Bryan Dewsbury: 32:15

Right. So by doing so, could you maybe give an example then of how you disrupted that? Like give an example of something that you you know, through dialogue, right, you've been able to unearth this highly valuable thing that maybe even that individual hadn't before the conversation ascribed value to.

Adam Bush: 32:33

Yeah. We've so I would first say at how you described it, the assumptions of higher ed

Bryan Dewsbury: 32:39

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 32:39

Absolutely. They say it only counts if it's in a classroom and if you're paying tuition for it. And what we said is we got accreditation so that we can better honor learning that people are doing in daily life. How do we build an institution with that value, like, at its forefront? Our we say that everyone deserves a post secondary degree, and we wanna make sure that we are honoring that and living up to that.

Adam Bush: 33:09

Embedded into everyone's first semester are are, in addition to that lab, two different classes. One called Reframing Failure

Bryan Dewsbury: 33:16

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 33:16

That really came out of sort of like frustrations I had fifteen years ago, seeing a lot of TED talks from, like, social entrepreneurs saying, like, fail forward. And, like, I learned this thing, and I messed up, and the company closed. And so I went on to this next thing, and I learned this, and that one closed, and then this other.

Bryan Dewsbury: 33:34

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 33:35

And it didn't talk about any of, like, the human effect Mhmm. Of folks losing their jobs or being invested in someone and and then being disappointed by it. And I feel like the arrogance of those talks was had this other almost like shadow of folks who could only see that couldn't see failure as learning experiences. They could only see them as the things that were personal failures, not systemic ones.

Bryan Dewsbury: 34:06

Got it.

Adam Bush: 34:07

And so reframing failure asks every student to write a resume of their failures, but failures in quotes. It's like if you're actually making a resume of it, it's not what schools did you get your degree from, it's what schools did you start and stop out, and why and how. If it's instead of special qualifications on a resume, it might be things you're not really good at but you kind of enjoy. It's like how do we get to tell the story of stuff that isn't just labeled as traditional successful models Right. Like points of someone's life and development.

Bryan Dewsbury: 34:45

Right.

Adam Bush: 34:45

The other class that we require is called learning from experience. Mhmm. And in some way, it's like a prior learning assessment class. Like, it's helping people to tell the story of learning experiences in jobs and life and community organizing and family raising and caregiving of elders or youngers. But it also connects to what we call the big 10.

Adam Bush: 35:11

College Unbound, when we started, we named the 10, other places would say soft skills, or habits of mind, or what, advocacy, collaboration, creativity, resilience, problem solving, communication. Oof. I only got to six. I must be getting old or tired.

Bryan Dewsbury: 35:30

Or it's 05:30. So So

Adam Bush: 35:32

there's there's 10 that I would say every college has. FIU has, URI has, the things that an educated citizen of the world has when they graduate from an institution. And we said we weren't just gonna name them. Mhmm. We were gonna measure the heck out of them.

Adam Bush: 35:47

We did three sixty assessments beforehand, after, your first day, and your whatever. Mhmm. And then we said, not only are we gonna measure them all the time, we're gonna make them graduation requirements. So you had to get to master your proficiency level by the time you graduate. Then we said, not only are they graduation requirements, we have to put our money where our mouth is and put credit to them.

Adam Bush: 36:06

And so that 10 out of every student's hundred and twenty credits towards their bachelor's degree is through them doing portfolio based presentations of development awareness of their work as an advocate, as a problem solver, as a communicator in the world. And we don't charge for that. It's embedded into the curriculum. It's a thing you can either do after your first semester or you can work on slowly throughout your college degree. But it's where we say every student has that within them.

Adam Bush: 36:41

Mhmm. Even in schools that lift up and brag about their prior learning assessment program, at most, those campuses are have 12% of their students getting credit from prior learning assessment. We have 100% of our students doing it because we build the structures around it Mhmm. Absolutely in that first semester, but also because we actually care about it and lift it up and say, you have that learning in you.

Bryan Dewsbury: 37:12

Right.

Adam Bush: 37:12

And we wanna make sure it's reflected on your message. Yeah. Exactly. Right? Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 37:18

So those are stories of daily triumphs of, I did this with my kid. Mhmm. Those are stories of bigger accomplishments of a, I started this nonprofit, or I fought for this build to pass. Mhmm. Or stories of, in class this person kept on pissing me off, but here we learned how to work through this in these You're documenting and learning that throughout your experience a college student at College Unbound, and with that are more and more sure of who you are in the world and how to value those skills.

Adam Bush: 37:55

And those are the same skills that employers will say you're supposed to have when you graduate that we want to hire for. Those are same skills that every college will say, but we center it in a different way that has deep honoring.

Bryan Dewsbury: 38:07

Well, we we just, you know, do a ton of content and assume they'll pick it up along the way. Right? I I I've always been fascinated by that. Not in a good way. And I I I I wouldn't say struggle, but I I I do realize it's a hard sell for people who've been brought up in that world and

Adam Bush: 38:29

Mhmm.

Bryan Dewsbury: 38:29

And and it's and not even a hard sell in the sense that people resist the argument. I think hard sell in the sense that when you're so entrenched in a system and it's all you know, it's hard to even see what an alternative look like, right? So this is why disruptive models are necessary because it sounds nice and flurry, but why don't you just see what it looks like operationalized? Tell me a little bit about faculty in this model.

Adam Bush: 38:59

Sure.

Bryan Dewsbury: 39:00

And I'm saying this as somebody who does a lot of faculty development. Yeah. And I, know, my approach is less about, you know, what are your learning outcomes? I mean, I'm not saying that it's not doesn't matter, it does. But it's more about what what spirit, what energy, what what empathy, what, you know, Yeah.

Bryan Dewsbury: 39:20

What aspect of yourself and your soul are you bringing to this experience? And what have you done to prepare yourself to be in commune with your students? Right? And I work really hard on my language. I kid you not because I know know what I'm dealing with.

Bryan Dewsbury: 39:35

I don't wanna like critique or infantilize faculty here, but I understand being one myself and having gone through several years of STEM grad school, so don't let us get started on that. How provocative even this kind of language can sound. Right? And it's almost as though I feel the need to to really slowly on ramp people in the I'm not even talking about just caring about students or just, you know, doing group work or increasing belonging. I'm talking about a whole different way of viewing what it means to be in commune with students.

Bryan Dewsbury: 40:13

And I imagine that you might have a similar challenge. Maybe I shouldn't call it a challenge, but something you had to think about in terms of who's gonna, you know, lay this vision out in the classes.

Adam Bush: 40:24

Yeah. I'm okay calling it a challenge.

Bryan Dewsbury: 40:27

It's for

Adam Bush: 40:27

sure a challenge.

Bryan Dewsbury: 40:27

Alright. Yeah.

Adam Bush: 40:30

I also am aware, like, I'm building a college right now that does not have full time faculty. Mhmm. And there's ways that that is a model that that leans on what others would call contingent faculty or adjunct. That in a lot of places leans on underpaying faculty, holding multiple jobs within multiple institutions. And I wanna create a new a model for part time faculty that centers equity.

Adam Bush: 41:04

Right. And we're not there yet, and I want to build that. Mhmm. That that needs to embed within it deep professional development Mhmm. And deep care, the same values that we have to students of tell us about the learning that you did in the world, and how can we support you doing that work that you wanna care about, that you do care about.

Adam Bush: 41:23

I want I want to do that same work with faculty. I want College Unbound to be the space in the community Yeah. For folks to enact that work. And and I think breaking down a hierarchy between students and faculty allows for a faculty member for this to be a space of peer learning

Bryan Dewsbury: 41:44

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 41:44

That I think there there can be different collaborative problem solving Mhmm. That can feel like a very different kind of higher ed to teach in and work in. Right. That being said, as like a preface, I wanna think about four different types of faculty within College Unbound. One would be that cohort experience I talked about, the World and Workplace Lab.

Bryan Dewsbury: 42:06

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 42:07

That's what we call lab faculty, who work with a cohort of students in a way where they are co designing that seminar and that syllabus. Mhmm. Because every student has projects that they're bringing to it, and faculty is co designing that space to help the students enact their projects and to learn from one another. Mhmm. That lab faculty role is deeply emotional because you're meeting weekly with each student.

Adam Bush: 42:37

Mhmm. You are designing that seminar space, but you're getting to know each student and their lives, and you're there as an advocate for them to try and do that work. And you're there as an advocate for them within the institution so that they can learn the things they need to learn through College Unbound to do that work you're trying to support. Those lab faculty come from folks in the, sometimes who are social work, sometimes folks from education, sometimes folks from other institutions, sometimes folks from student services at URI or however. And it's a space that I think is deeply rewarding for a faculty member that can come into it.

Adam Bush: 43:25

As a partner with that lab faculty, we have a position that alumni fill called cohort mentors where they are asked to be guards of the mission and vision of the school to make sure that the cohort maintains fidelity to the college, recognizing that sometimes those cohorts have brand new faculty and brand new students. And so we wanna make sure there's also somewhere that the students and the faculty can turn to, like, this is funky program, are we doing this right? So you don't revert to the ways of teaching at instead of learning with.

Bryan Dewsbury: 44:06

Yeah.

Adam Bush: 44:07

And so you have the cohort

Bryan Dewsbury: 44:08

Whole story is passed.

Adam Bush: 44:10

Yeah. That's absolutely right.

Bryan Dewsbury: 44:12

Right. Yeah.

Adam Bush: 44:13

So you have the cohort mentor. You have the lab faculty. Mhmm. Those online eight week instructional classes, have we call instructional faculty. Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 44:22

That most resemble faculty in other institutions as well. I would say it's sort of like a third, a third, a third split between faculty from other institutions who are teaching traditionally aged students Mhmm. That seek us out because they're looking to teach in different ways or teach an adult learner student population. We have faculty who are new degree holders that are just stepping into higher education Mhmm. Teaching and learning, and want to define the relationship to higher education differently.

Adam Bush: 44:58

They're maybe not looking for a traditional job, a traditional tenure track but want to wanna be teaching higher ed. Right. And so there's folks who are just finishing their green stepping into that. Right. And then there's folks who are really, like, mid career scholars, actors, workers in the world in fields that maybe don't formally have teaching and learning embedded into them, but absolutely and formally all the time are doing teaching and learning work.

Adam Bush: 45:23

And so our managers in the workplace that then come to College of Mound to teach organizational leadership and change work across the curriculum. Mhmm. And so, we support a community of faculty members who teach in those eight week classes Mhmm. Over the course of the year. We really, there's not folks teaching more than five classes, so like, we have five eight week chunks.

Adam Bush: 45:48

Mhmm. But we do have mentor faculty and core faculty that have multi year contracts through the institution. So they have a level of connection to the institution over time, and they help to support new faculty stepping into that.

Bryan Dewsbury: 46:04

Okay.

Adam Bush: 46:04

And then we have assessment faculty, folks who are coming to support the assessment of those big 10 portfolios I talked to you about. And we have faculty that have multiple positions across all of those. We're trying to step better into and more intentionally is making sure that our alumni, our cohort mentors Mhmm. Have the ability and the training and the support to step into being lab faculty and instructional faculty and assessment faculty. Okay.

Adam Bush: 46:33

We do that well institutionally. A third of our full time staff at the college are alumni of the college. So they're folks who finished College Unbound as a funky school critiquing higher ed as it Yeah. Yeah. They were folks that didn't feel like they could finish a degree at a traditional institution than coming to CU and seeing higher ed as the place that they wanted to base their career.

Adam Bush: 46:54

I wanna do that on faculty levels too.

Bryan Dewsbury: 46:56

Right. So the the name is intuitive, but is there more to how I came up with the name?

Adam Bush: 47:06

The unbound part? Mhmm.

Bryan Dewsbury: 47:08

I guess the college is pretty obvious. So

Adam Bush: 47:13

I'll say two things about having that name. Mhmm. And then and then we'll circle back. The one is we haven't yet talked about our student body in-depth enough, but 50% of our student body identifies being justice impacted and use that term as a way to frame they either have a relationship to incarceration personally or have family or friends that are and have a relationship to the carceral system because of that. And so we can't be a school called College Unbound without teaching within and challenging carceral spaces.

Adam Bush: 47:44

And so to think about the tension of laboratory learning Mhmm. Inside classrooms and prisons and so supporting folks

Bryan Dewsbury: 47:53

in that So you lean pretty deeply into that.

Adam Bush: 47:55

Yeah. Not because that is, oh, now there's Pell Grants and that's where we need go. And not because, oh, that's a market share. It's because that's our student body always.

Bryan Dewsbury: 48:05

Right.

Adam Bush: 48:06

That that that's our stew those are our And so there's no line in the sand of this is where learning happens and this is not where it happens. It's making sure we are there to have cohorts and classes in space of collaborative learning Mhmm. Where folks already are. And so that also means in those spaces. Yeah.

Adam Bush: 48:27

And I'll also say, certainly, we have a funky name. Every couple of

Bryan Dewsbury: 48:35

say funky, but

Adam Bush: 48:36

Okay. We have a name that reminds folks of an Outward Bound program or a college access program or things like that.

Bryan Dewsbury: 48:42

Actually, what it reminded me of Yeah. Like okay. I'll say when I hear the name and just because maybe I I know about the school, I lived in Providence for several years. I've read about it. You know, some of your board members are people I know.

Bryan Dewsbury: 48:56

And and how you describe everything, the ethos of the school is, you know, sounds like it's sort of the unbundling of higher ed and rebuilding and reframing and reconstructing it to to kind of more directly address the things we need to address. Right? That's what I take from the unbound. Yeah. I do remember.

Bryan Dewsbury: 49:14

I can remember the program I was watching, but somewhere I was in San Francisco, there was a startup that had, I forgot the name of it. But the idea was they were gonna take the sort of discretize the different services colleges typically offer.

Adam Bush: 49:32

Mhmm.

Bryan Dewsbury: 49:33

And give students opportunity to to access those on their own space or whatever. Like, I don't know how to describe it. Maybe I'm just not remembering the program very well. But it was a very different it's it's different to what you're describing. That was more it it was keeping a lot of what we know college to be.

Bryan Dewsbury: 49:50

Yeah. But just maybe removing the the frat parties. Right? Right? And the diversity teams and stuff like that.

Bryan Dewsbury: 49:56

So that that was my only reference. But because I know

Adam Bush: 49:59

Yeah.

Bryan Dewsbury: 49:59

It I know feel like I know a bit more what what it means in the context you mean

Adam Bush: 50:03

it in. Yeah. The the un is really important.

Bryan Dewsbury: 50:08

Okay.

Adam Bush: 50:08

There's always a higher ed as it could be, should be that we wanna step into. Mhmm. There's also a higher ed that has been that we want to critique by creating new models of being. Mhmm. And so that it's not unbundling.

Adam Bush: 50:28

Yep.

Bryan Dewsbury: 50:28

Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Bush: 50:29

Yeah. Like, Minerva or whatever.

Bryan Dewsbury: 50:31

That thing that think it was yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Bush: 50:33

But the unboundedness is meaning there's a way that it is done and a way that can be more expansive and imaginative and capacious.

Bryan Dewsbury: 50:41

Okay.

Adam Bush: 50:42

And that's what we wanna step into. It's the

Bryan Dewsbury: 50:44

I think it's good to hear that.

Adam Bush: 50:45

It's like asp it's Unbound, but it's about the aspirational vision of higher education. Right. And we should we should always have that aspiration. Right. We should always be improvisational.

Adam Bush: 50:57

Mhmm. Mhmm. And there's a way that when we became a college, we became an institution, we could have, and lots of places do, institutionalize. We did this thing. We got a credit.

Adam Bush: 51:11

Let's be this thing. Mhmm. I wanna make sure we are always in this practice of becoming more us Mhmm. In our values. Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 51:20

Because otherwise, I think you get locked into Mhmm. A way of being that as the world changes, you don't change.

Bryan Dewsbury: 51:28

Right. Michelle Obama would be proud.

Adam Bush: 51:30

That's right.

Bryan Dewsbury: 51:33

Well, tell me a little bit about your student population. So you mentioned that one statistic. And I know you you know, it started off, you know, as an LLC almost with traditionally Asian, and then you said you had adult learners reach out. Tell me about your population now, what it looks like, you know, what you love about them, what you know about them.

Adam Bush: 51:51

Our student body averages at at thirty eight, thirty nine years old. Okay. 70 something percent women. Mhmm. 80 something percent parenting students.

Adam Bush: 52:09

Mhmm. And through a curriculum in a relationship to the college, 90 something percent of them say their Pathways degree helps them do the work that they're trying to do in the world. Mhmm. It helps them move up, get a $15,000 pay bump because they get the degree and they step into this new work. Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 52:29

As we grow the school, it's really trying to do it through community organized and partnership model. So certainly in Rhode Island, we have about close to two thirds of our students, Mhmm. It's as folks graduate, it's their family and friends that are coming to the school. Right. Right.

Adam Bush: 52:48

In new cities that we're stepping into

Bryan Dewsbury: 52:50

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 52:50

In Philadelphia, in Chicago, Seattle, Greenville. It's really making sure we have deep partnerships with workplaces and with sectors. Mhmm. So that we're building cohorts that are embedded into public school districts, into health clinics Mhmm. Into unions, into nonprofits that are supporting employees of those places together move into a Bachelor's degree and through doing that, build the capacity of their workplace and sector.

Adam Bush: 53:16

And so if you think about in Philadelphia, we have 10, soon to be 15 cohorts of teacher assistants in the public school district. As they get bachelor's degrees, they step into being classroom based teachers. There's real pathways to systems change in that, and we wanna make sure that our college keeps on advancing that.

Bryan Dewsbury: 53:39

Yeah. So I wanna bring this back to you for a second because, you know, one one of the things I never want to one trap I never really wanna fall into is when I'm having conversations like these, sometimes or maybe okay. Should say when I listen to conversations like these, sometimes guests, so I hear people talk about really cool projects. And to the audience, it just sounds like it just came to be. Mhmm.

Bryan Dewsbury: 54:05

But actually what I'm hearing based on what you shared of your own story is what has come to be is intricately connected to your own personal journey. And you know, you talk about the oral history project and all of that work. And I sort of wonder, was there a time when you had envisioned yourself to be not doing what you're doing now? And this is not to dismiss what you're doing now, but was there a time when you say, oh, you know, in ten years I'll be a jazz musician or a historian or maybe a more traditional thing. But based on your telling of the last, you know, thirty five, forty minutes, it sounds like you also were in a permanent state of improvisation.

Adam Bush: 54:50

Yep.

Bryan Dewsbury: 54:51

Yeah. And and if I if I'm right about that, I don't I don't get the impression that I'd necessarily started with doing oral history of jazz or, you know, stagehand, you know, with school theater. So I'm wondering, like, tell me about the origins of that. I mean, I I know the the the incident with your grandfather was deeply impactful. But there seemed to be some ethic that has come to be in you that has driven this project and a lot of what you've done.

Bryan Dewsbury: 55:19

Could you talk about that a little bit? He's looking up in his sky in case to my audience.

Adam Bush: 55:30

I when I was five, I wanted to be a paleontologist. I remember that. I mean, in some way, there's, like, a deep privilege to being raised with that ethic of Mhmm. You can be whatever you wanna be and Mhmm. Step in that new and that you have the time to be able to experiment in those ways.

Bryan Dewsbury: 55:49

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Bush: 55:50

So I do not take that for granted.

Bryan Dewsbury: 55:52

Right.

Adam Bush: 55:53

I did always feel a deep urgency, though. I mean, there's a there's a meanderingness that I think led to what I'm doing. Where are from again? Los Angeles.

Bryan Dewsbury: 56:01

Okay. Yeah. You told me you did say that.

Adam Bush: 56:03

But I always felt there was an urgency to work. Mhmm. And when I was spending time with with jazz musicians, I mean, I had to learn the harmonica well enough that they had a reason to want to talk to me. Okay. Or or they understood that my that I had a reason to talk to them.

Adam Bush: 56:25

Okay. I couldn't just be an outsider weirdo want to talk to them.

Bryan Dewsbury: 56:27

Had to

Adam Bush: 56:27

be a musician.

Bryan Dewsbury: 56:28

What's c sharp?

Adam Bush: 56:29

Yep. So I had to be good enough the harmonica to, like, be in that world. Right. And, you know, there's that Ellison quote of, like, this music demanded action. Those stories Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 56:44

And that music certainly demanded action. It was following that to the next thing. I didn't go to grad school thinking I would be in higher ed. Mhmm. I went to grad school because I I knew I needed help figuring out how to support the telling and the lifting up of those stories.

Adam Bush: 56:59

Right. But that was just the that was my entry point into the landscape of higher ed.

Bryan Dewsbury: 57:05

Right.

Adam Bush: 57:05

And then that became my organizing space. Right. And so College of Man became the outgrowth of that. Right. I would say also, I don't mean to deflect your question about me into then being about the college and the students, but like, there's a danger in College Unbound of a college built around each individual student, you can do the project you wanna do.

Bryan Dewsbury: 57:29

Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 57:29

Of it being social entrepreneurship, social enterprise, everyone can do their own thing. There's something deeply important in the college of it being grounded in community and collective Mhmm. And shared visioning. And so this wasn't my project. This was work that emerged out of being deeply in relationship with others over many years.

Bryan Dewsbury: 57:57

Right.

Adam Bush: 57:58

And at College of Mound, for any student, it's making sure that we are building the type of learning environment. Mhmm. Where even though we talk about individualized curriculum to navigate your bachelor's pathway, it's always in deep community. Yeah. With who you are, where you come from.

Adam Bush: 58:14

Right. Where we collectively need to go a world, as community, as an organization, for there to be more justice in it. And when we talk about being more and more of a college, you got accredited. Accreditation has standards. The standards of accreditation, can approve, show that to your peer institutions, you're doing the things that qualify you to be an an institution.

Adam Bush: 58:37

There's other peers beyond other higher ed institutions that I wanna think about as our institutional peers, and I wanna codevelop those standards of being a institutional citizen of the world. Mhmm. Mhmm. Of what it means to support there being more justice in the world and more collaboration in the world. Right.

Adam Bush: 59:01

And more advocacy and care and collective visioning. And and I really, being in in deep conversation with you, I wanna make sure that you're a part of that work, that we're thinking about that together, and that we're always building structures like faculty development ones.

Bryan Dewsbury: 59:20

Right.

Adam Bush: 59:21

Like curricular ones that that ground that in deep relational work, in active listening, and in improvisation.

Bryan Dewsbury: 59:29

Yeah. See, I'll tell you one thing I struggle with. And you use touched on it. You acknowledge your privilege and I'll acknowledge mine as well. I mean, you know, some areas, not in some areas.

Bryan Dewsbury: 59:41

I get it. But in the same way you talked about going to grad school, not necessarily with the aim of being a professor. I went to grad school, least the initial goal, right, was to get involved in some way in environmental conservation work. And I think this this mentality I have comes from my my deceased dad in that I have kind of a visceral reaction to feeling like I'm being controlled and not necessarily by a person per se, but by a system that's telling you, you must do this and to be valuable to us, you must behave like this and take this class and be that way. And so, you know, you're sort of seeing that.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:00:27

You're going to grad school and you're seeing all of these things. Right? And and I chose the path that I chose my path. Right? And I had the privilege of running into a classroom that really made me look at myself and what I want to do in this world.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:00:44

But when I speak to people, and I'm sure you have this this too, you know, there's a sense in which it has a little bit of a do what you love feel to it, which which you which I worry a little bit feels reckless. Just do your love and things will work out. Which which is not what it is. Right? Right.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:01:05

And and I don't in in a in a society, in a culture where the tendency and the temptation is to commodify everything into some capitalist framing. Yeah. Right? It will get you a nice job, nice salary, a nice I I neither want to be dismissive of the need to have a sustainable Mhmm. Financially sustainable life, but also I don't want to be to be so, you know, enslaved to that.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:01:29

Mhmm. That you're just checking boxes. Mhmm. Right?

Adam Bush: 01:01:31

Mhmm.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:01:33

And and do you have challenges in having because that to me is is a lot of what you describe about college unbound. Right? We're not doing this to get you to be an accountant. Right. We're not doing no.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:01:42

We're doing this for the values of the world, of society, of the community.

Adam Bush: 01:01:45

Well, there was a a crossroads fifteen years ago Mhmm. Where it could have been we really care about bringing people together to learn together. Mhmm. Why do we need to get accredited and be a college to do that? Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 01:02:02

And there's deep amazing models that we that I do follow and feel like are models for CU, but could have been models for not being an accredited college of Highlander Institute, Freedom Schools, all. Mhmm. Like and we became an accredited college because our student body needed us to be an accredited college because the the value of the degree Mhmm. Helps them Yeah. Be an accountant if they need to be an Right.

Adam Bush: 01:02:35

If they want to be an accountant. Right. If it it helps them move in the world with a different with a different freedom and flexibility. Mhmm. And the bet we were making is that we could do the things that are deeply important of how to learn together Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 01:02:57

Even within the confines of being an accredited college. Mhmm. And I think we do it Yeah. Pretty well. Okay.

Adam Bush: 01:03:04

Mhmm. It's not a I'd push against the like, do what you love, it'll work out. Mhmm. Because our students come to us with also deep hurt of past institutions of higher ed, but also of other systems that have affected them.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:03:17

Right.

Adam Bush: 01:03:17

And through a Bachelor's of Arts degree in Organizational Leadership and Change, they are doing work that challenges those systems. Mhmm. That's not casual, and that's I can find it romantic when I'm telling the story about

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:03:31

it. Right.

Adam Bush: 01:03:31

Right. It's not just romantic work. It's deeply actionable, has deep impact, and and I think needed a degree behind it to have the to have that level of impact.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:03:44

Right. I I wanna close with one more question. And I I see this will last on purpose because even even before I had asked you to send me things, additional things about college unbound, had known about college unbound. And I had come across that diversity in democracy article some time ago. And maybe selfishly as somebody who connects stories, my life, my journey and how it's kind of impacted my view of the world.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:04:17

In in ways I didn't know then but know now. I was moved by your telling of the story of your grandmother, you know, talking to you and, you know, checking in about, you know, am I boring you? Am I, you know and and if you if you don't mind kind of retelling that interaction and and how it's come how it's informed a little bit of your vision of College Unbound.

Adam Bush: 01:04:41

Sure. I I talked about my my grandfather, my mom's dad. You're mentioning a story of my my grandmother, my nanny, my Mhmm. My mom's mom, who she was 92 years old Mhmm. When I did probably a dozen hours of oral histories with her.

Adam Bush: 01:05:02

Mhmm. Mhmm. This was before I left in her Cadillac to start to interview Jasmine.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:05:07

Did she know who you left in her Cadillac? And He never answered the question. Go on.

Adam Bush: 01:05:16

No. It was she very graciously gave me her Cadillac, and it was the right time for her not to be driving the car anymore. So this was the, like, sweet gesture. Yeah. And over those dozen hours of interviewing, she, you know, she talked about everything, across the nine decades of her life.

Adam Bush: 01:05:45

And I remember in the in the closing minutes it wasn't just the closing minutes. It was really the closing minutes of every hour. She would just, like, start to laugh, like, are we done already? Like, do we have to keep going? Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 01:05:57

You must have everything you need. We're over it. And she would just kinda start to giggle at herself. And at the last hour, she was just, like, laughing uncontrollably, like, you can't ask me any more questions. Like, this has gotta be the the fullest you need.

Adam Bush: 01:06:10

There's there's no more to tell. What are you talking about? I'm out of stories. And, you know, there's something I think I learned about about listening, about patience, about generosity, certainly from the way she tells stories. Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 01:06:26

Mhmm. And if I had in the first hour when she said like, I got no more stories. What are you talking about? Mhmm. If I had

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:06:34

If I tapped

Adam Bush: 01:06:35

out. If I had tapped out, then I would have missed I would have missed a whole bunch of what I learned about who I am and who our family was. And so there's something about, like, supporting folks to be really aware of their of their brilliance Mhmm. Of their love, of their stories Mhmm. That is clear when you hear the dozen hours from my nanny.

Adam Bush: 01:07:04

But it's also an ethic, I think, of that's baked into College Unbound. Mhmm. Folks entering their first semester, a lot of times, saying, like, I just need the down and dirtiest, cheapest, quickest, fastest way to a bachelor's degree. Right.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:07:17

Right.

Adam Bush: 01:07:17

And I get that. Mhmm. I don't I don't I want it to be cheap and down and dirty and fast for sure. Mhmm. And I think it can also be transformative.

Adam Bush: 01:07:26

Right. And it can be transformative when you start by saying, tell me about yourself. Mhmm. What do you care about? Mhmm.

Adam Bush: 01:07:33

What drives you? Mhmm. And out of those questions, you can build a whole pathway, curriculum, and way of learning together that I think can have deep impact for for each of us.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:07:47

Do you still play the harmonica?

Adam Bush: 01:07:49

I no longer carry one around with me, but I still dream of going back to playing it.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:07:57

Okay.

Adam Bush: 01:07:57

Yeah. So

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:07:58

That's like that's like me on piano, but, oh, boy. I'm amazed at how fast one can get rusty.

Adam Bush: 01:08:03

Well, next podcast, we'll do a duet. You know?

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:08:06

No promises. Hey, Adam. Thanks for spending the hour with me, man. That was great.

Adam Bush: 01:08:10

I really appreciate it. Joy, and I'm glad to call you a friend and a partner in the world.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:08:14

We will. We'll continue to do that.

Adam Bush: 01:08:15

Thanks. Take care. See you.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:08:22

Knowledge Unbound is brought to you by the RIOS Institute for Racially Just Inclusive Open STEM Education. We are generously funded by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. I want to thank as always my longtime producer Mr. Segeb Amasai. I want to thank you to the listeners for listening.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:08:43

I encourage you to subscribe. That way you get updates on every new episode. I want to thank thank President Adam Bush for making the time to spend some time with us and share his stories with us. And I wanna confess to you that just in in talking to him and as a lover of jazz myself, not not an expert, just a lover. He really provided maybe a new way of thinking about improvisation and perhaps what it means to be in a space where you are always looking to create, you are always looking to incubate, and that means you're always needing to scan and be aware of problems and challenges that need fixing.

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:09:32

And it feels like, and I hope he's okay with this summary, but it feels like this is how he set up College Unbound to to help society and to to make a change, to be a difference. So I hope in your own way, your own lives, your own long, fruitful career, my listeners, that you find ways to make and be a change. We'll see you next week. Be excellent teacher.

Adam Bush: 01:10:08

You weren't just learning improvisation to be a musician. You were learning improvisation as a way of being in the world, and that that is political work. And I began to see and understand improvisation not just as a research subject, but, the more and more I got involved in higher education, it became the way I taught and designed classes Mhmm. In deep co creation and collaboration with

Bryan Dewsbury: 01:10:33

students. Okay.

Adam Bush: 01:10:34

And then as I got more and more involved in higher ed, it became the institutional ethic I was after.